484
viewsSensitive Guys vs. Manly Men
By NiceBuddhistGrrrl, Friday, July 30, 2010, 11 commentsAs Skirt's most sapphic blogger, I never thought I would write this blog. But while chilling out and perhaps watching too many Lady Sovereign videos on YouTube (sometimes I fixate, okay?), I discovered the hottest guy ever. Hottest. Guy. Ever. Jhameel. I thought, "Well, him I would make out with." Then again, maybe that's because he looks so androgynous. Or because his album (free on his website) is so sensitive and feministy and all those wonderful things. Or because of the VIOLIN in his cover of a T-Pain song. (Seriously, check that out and see if you can resist). So now I will ask you, oh great masses of man-liking Skirt ladies, what's hotter: sensitive, andro guys, or butch manly men? Some combination? Neither?
This relates to a couple of previous blogs, one about defining "femme," and one about fangirl crushes where I mentioned in the comments that I'm fond of a book called "Porn for Women." "Porn for Women" is just pictures of guys folding laundry, asking for directions, and so on. Excellent blogger Susan Boswell joked about how it was fantasy and it wasn't going to happen.
But you see, that hasn't been the case for me. The only guys I've dated have all cleaned my kitchen or ironed my clothes or wanted to process feelings. They've all been those Porn for Women guys--basically, they've been just like the women I've dated but without breasts. They've also all been kinda queer, often andro, sensitive, artistic, etc. Which is what I liked about them. Don't get me wrong--I like a good swagger as much as anyone, but I like it a lot better on cute feminist-conscious tomboys than on real boys. Or at the very least, I like it paired a love of tea and crocheting. Take-charge bravado is a lot hotter from somebody who will hold my hand and cry when upset than from somebody who pretends not to have feelings. And to me, nothing is sexy when somebody has left their dirty socks all over my floor.
Yet there's clearly something about dudes with muscles and unadulterated machismo that gets some ladies going. Many of the boys I dated did a lot better with queer girls than with straight girls, and it seems that there's a least some cultural myth, or perhaps cultural reality, that (straight) women want manly men. Men who, I don't know, lift heavy objects and don't look like they might be girls and smell "like men." (I don't know what that means, but I keep seeing these Old Spices poster ads that say "Smell Like a Man," and I wonder if any of you understand that? My longest boy-grrrl relationship was with a guy who spent more on skin care and hair products than I do, so I do not know what "men" smell like). It seems that less-than-manly dudes get labeled "gay" or else seen as sexless, spineless, or otherwise unsexy to straight ladies.
I'm probably in the minority, but when I see a totally butched out fellow, I think either "Eww," or "He could not handle this." On the one hand, I might be being unfair and prejudice based on stereotypes. On the other hand, my few encounters with straight guys have without a doubt been the least satisfying out of all my gender-diverse dates. On yet another hand (I guess I have three hands), I'm pretty effing gay, so what do I know about guys? On the fourth hand (oh, I'm symmetrical again!), it does seem from my observation and my friends' accounts that guys who are less invested in cultural rules of maleness are better rounded people, more loving and complex, and, dare I say it, more aware of lady bits. I mean, skinny sensitive guys won't be able to defend you if a lion attacks, but in general they know there's more to sex than their penises.
I vaguely know a few young men who are currently trying to enact masculinity to be more appealing to ladies. They're wimpy, geeky boys, and that's what's charming about them, but they weren't getting much play. So they bought motorcycles and started wearing Old Spice and playing or watching sports and making themselves over in our culturally accepted image of masculinity. And for them, it's working. They're getting more dates than when they were their natural, less masculine selves.
I don't really get it, but I guess I'm not supposed to. So please explain. Is male femininity and/or androgyny attractive to you? Is butchness hotter? Equal? Does your life sound like Porn for Women? Do you, too, want to make out with Jhameel?
And seriously, how do you embed video on here?
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11 Comments
Oh natalie, such a complex
Oh natalie, such a complex topic!
First of all my husband's personal hero is david bowie. When we met he had dreams, serious dreams of becoming the bowie of our generation. I think bowie's hot, but personally I still think mick jagger is sexy (I do not care how old he is ladies). Husband hadn't been aware of jagger's sex appeal (maybe too bowie blinded?) But when he noticed my stones obsession he did start to act a little more jaggerish. See why this is complicated it's very hard to explain the difference between bowie and jagger, especially if you read about any of the rumors about exactly HOW much the two shared... But jagger is a little more masculine in attitude I think. He may have wore a bit of eyeliner and a size 0 women's pants, but everything he did/does screamed serious sex. Bowie, even with pink make up all over his face (or eye region) was much more subtle about the sexiness. Oh it's there for sure, but he never strutted quite like mick.
My husband appreciates those men for who they are and the sex appeal that (at least the two of us) see in them. He came pretend he's a glam rock star, but at the same time he's picked up things from my "one of the guys side"- to me it is important that I can watch a baseball game with a man without having to explain every play to him, and this is totally wrong but I don't mind doing the play by plays for female friends, but my husband fell in love with watching the sport and I married him that month, after 3 years of engagement, coincidence? I don't think so. There's the quality of sportsmanship you learn by being a player or fan, I want my children to learn it, I value it, my husband has to at least understand that baseball is far more than a sport. (But that's what I need in the man I say forever to, someone with flexible emotions, someone who can hang with the guys(I made him go with me and some old guy buddies to a strip club last weekend) and still respect the girls. A man who likes baseball, makes beautiful music and is studying to be a chef-i'm not cooking!)
But as far as eye candy...FIREMEN.hahaha
Great topic I could ramble for days on this one! Kisses-katy
And after ALL THAT (sorry I
And after ALL THAT (sorry I thought about firemen and couldn't think straight) it really comes down to the classic answer- confidence- for me. Anyone who I have ever found attractive has had an attitude that exudes "I'm okay with me-ness"
I like that
Confidence. Totally. And being comfortable in their own skin. Like described, somebody who's flexible.
As for the sports thing, see, I don't care about sports at all, so maybe that's not at all about masculinity, but just about mutual interests? Whereas cooking, I love to cook, both with people and for people. Maybe these aren't gendered activities so much anymore? Hmm...
Oh, Bowie! I was glam-obsessed for a whole year in high school. Really, it's what got me to give up the whole queer-girls-must-wear-ugly-clothes phase. I practically memorized "Velvet Goldmine" (references the Bowie-Jagger rumors!) and listened to a lot of Bowie et al. So I'm really hoping your husband does become our generation's Bowie.
And long comments are great! I wrote this with hopes for discussion.
You are such a great writer:-)
Natalie, you are such a GREAT WRITER!!!! I really enjoyed reading this:-) Porn for women? Never heard of it, but it sounds very funny. I'll have to find a copy.
No, men doing laundry and cooking, and other domestic things doesn't really do it for me either, mostly because it's something I expect--like a prerequisite, or a given--so I guess I take that stuff for granted.
I've never liked "manly men" or "femmy men" either. I guess I've always searched for a good combo. My husband, for example, cooks, cleans, and oftentimes talks with his hand on his hip. He's sensitive and likes to talk more than I do. But, he also rides a motorcycle, is wicked into cars, changes our motoroil, mows the lawn, and needs to be encouraged to shower, lol.
Again, very, very enjoyable read:-)
Love,
Kimberly
Haha pipes! Z has to
Haha pipes! Z has to encourage me to shower! I see it as a major waste of time cause I'll be dirty 2 hours later! But that's me I seem very girly but I'm totally not. I'm the one rolling around in the sand at the beach... I guess it might be part of being my daddy's girl? Who knows...
Natalie- z read this and has his input on how he feels he's changed since meeting me, I'm gonna write a joint blog with him this weekend (pics and all from when we dressed him up like bowie for halloween)- we love dressing up (I've mentioned that he proposed while dressed like a faery for halloween haven't I?) Anyway he really enjoyed reading this and we felt like my "guys gal side" and his "glam rock persona" were interesting things we adjusted towards each other without losing ourselves. So when I get his ADD ass to sit down and write with me I'll link the post to your blog. The whole bowie/manly man concept was and is super present in our relationship. Awesome topic. Again. From me and husband. And his mom, I don't let her in on my skirty stuff but I read this to her tonight at dinner. She loves you. And she wants me to post a pic of her ex who used to iron his jeans naked (don't worry skirt! Editors it's not too naughty) and she thought it was a funny example of porn for women.
Oh one last random thing... I
Oh one last random thing... I wear old spice deodorant. Husband and I share, it's weird but saves money and I wore it before him. It works well, doesn't leave white streaks, and people tell me I smell good all the time (maybe old spice smells like a good woman? My lesbian pal whit loves the smell the most...)
As always, oo oo ooooo,
As always, oo oo ooooo, there's another thing from me... Husband's new role model is a chef. Interesting because it's gordon ramsey from hell's kitchen. So much to think about there. He said he's always going to have a special place for bowie, but he feels like his music is going more in the jagger direction letting out some of his southern roots in music (mick jagger hangs a sign on the wall when he writes a song that says "don't write country" because it is what he feels naturally compelled to do)
Ahh! Thank you!
@Kimberly: Thank you! It seems like gender combos are more the fun for everybody.
@Katy: I'm so looking forward to your/Z's blog! And I'd like to see these pictures. Jeans-ironing pictures, faery-proposing pictures... You know, I think if your sweetie proposes while dressed as a faery, you kinda have to say yes.
How'd I miss this?
Especially with the word firemen hidden in the comments. It should have been a beacon calling my name.
Here's my take on the men. My man is more of a traditional manly man. He's a contractor, works hard all day, not too muscle-y (I'm not a fan of muscles, except on firemen.... mmm firemen.....) He embodies some of the qualites about men I hate, like the machismo, but he really is a sweet guy deep, deep, deep down. He still opens car doors for me, texts me I love you's, seeks me out while sleeping. But none of those things get my motor running. I love those things but they are not enough. What drives me wild is the man smell. But not the kind he comes home from work with. As a very little kid I spent a lot of time around body shops. I LOVE to watch my husband fix up our cars. Watching him changing breaks is the best porn ever. He gets grease smeared on his hands and arms, he breaks out in a light sweat, the look of concentration.. (Mmmm drooling again) And the smell of fresh sweat mixed with grease drives me WILD. Seriously, uncontrolably wild. To me that is the man smell, though I'm sure other women have their own combos they consider the man smell.
As for other men, well my likes on men very as much as they do for my likes on women. It's a certain je ne sais quoi. Some undefinable something.
and as far as bowie is concerned, well as a teen I loved the movie the labrinth, loved bowie and jennifer connelly. I wanted them both right there in the maze... (drooling again)
and as far as less macho men knowing more about lady bits, YES! that is true!! but I think only because a less manly man isn't afraid to ask for directions and doesn't take it personal when gently correct his course.
Labrinth did something to us
Really, it's a big reference point for our generation. I watched that movie a LOT. Hmm...
Thanks for explaining about manly men. Okay, that's not my thing, but I can see the appeal. And is that what those stereotypes of men not asking for directions are about? Oooh.
By the way, the other day I saw a fire truck and thought, "Angel should be here."
Mmmm... I can imagine a
Mmmm... I can imagine a better idea for being there than watching a firetruck. :) ( lol so now you know my flirting skills didn't evolve past the 10th grade male level :D)
I was so disappointed to learn that it wasn't bowie manipulating the crystal ball, but in the end I realized that it didn't matter. It's hot. The masquerade ball scene even hotter. I bought the movie on dvd, I think I'll go watch it now.
xoxo
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